PSC: Buildings Breakout Session

Summary 

The University of Denver has been practicing a form of sustainability for over a dozen years. Energy and resource saving initiatives have and coninue to be pursued to offset rising energy costs and to help the preservation of limited campus acreage. We consilidated storm detention, pursued recycled water, repaired steam lines, expanded a central plant system, changed lighting, and added building automation systems. In this breakout session, we discuss ways in which the University can further address issues of energy conservation and building design in moving toward a sustainable University

Location: Sturm Hall, Room 234, 1:15 - 2:25 

Panelist Introductions

Morey Wolfson - Colorado Energy Office

James Knutson - Self-funding, revenue neutral way of doing energy retrofits. Assisted in lighting upgrades at DU campus. Goal is to make energy efficiency economically viable. Universities have limited budgets but ever-increasing standards for comfort.

Jim Bradburn - Designs HVAC/Plumbing systems for buildings. Architects have a lot of impact on energy use (not just engineers/building)

Mark Rodgers - University Architect. Working with LEED; how do those universal standards apply to localities like Denver?

Jeff Bemelen - Professional engineer (structural). $500 Million of construction on campus. Is bigger really better? Discpline in building; use space when we need it.

Discussion

Mark R: Lots of buildings at DU modeled after Margery Reed. New construction doesn't come with the idea that it is more energy efficient - lots of outlets, power resources, etc. Buildings need to available for everyone to plugin all at once (older buildings forced people to share the grid).

Question: A lot of presentations today had a "come to Jesus" theme. Who is addressing the 800 pound gorilla: the US Economy. What happens when you take away large corporations? What is being done to address how much there is arrayed against the ultimate goal of sustainability?

Mark R: Buildings built in 50s/60s/70s at DU were giving more problems than ones built before. For the institution, you must build something that will last for a LONG time, or build something that will degrade gracefully. Someday GM or other corporations might be building the materials that would enable that.

Jim B: Businesses will change with the market. Examples: oil companies that are no longer JUST oil companies (BP Solar, Chevron Energy company). They are looking for alternative means to reach the goal of providing power. Companies will meet the demands of the market. "Green collar" jobs like installing/maintaining wind turbines, doing solar installation, etc.

Morey W: Root ECO - Greek Oikos - House. With Economics, we're naming and numbering everything in our metaphorical house. Ecologics is a cultural reflection. We are favoring Economy over Ecology. Economy - "realistically" we want to pay the lowest possible price for their energy. For just a few more cents per kwH, we can purchase renewable energy. We need to break loose just a little bit of our insistence to "go on the cheap."

Jeff B: Wind is not totally consistent.

Morey W: Energy storage is the big missing piece right now. How do we store the extra energy that wind will eventually generate? Hundreds of millions of investment in renewable energy, thousands of new jobs, greening up our grid.

Question: At DU, when you decide whether to use geothermal or what light bulbs to use, etc. what length of time is acceptable for the payback?

Jeff B: 3-4 years. But now that we have the savings, we get to reinvest them. We don't want to invest in something that won't last through the payback period. Geothermal payback period was 20 years or so, and some of the equipment won't last that long.

Mark R: Ft. Collins - geothermal works because the school doesn't operate much during the summer, and the rooms were small. So, the payback wasn't the only issue with Geothermal at Nagel Hall. Residence hall rooms weren't efficient for using the little pumps and valves needed for Geothermal. They decided that Nagel Hall just wasn't the right building to take advantage of geothermal.

Jeff B: We get skeptical about anything with over 10-year payback.

Morey W: What are your assumptions about gas prices?

Jeff B: We've been buying gas ahead of time. Make a committment to a supplier, supplier commits to storage. We can lock into solar for 8 years, graduated annual increase, etc. Our energy cost last year was lower than the year before. I just try to figure out the best thing for the University.

Question: As an instructor here, my immediate thought is that if we can make the campus sustainable, that's great. But if we can get students to plug into the ethics of sustainability, we get even more. Is it feasible to talk about the David Orr/Oberlin model here at DU?

Mark R: We had Xerescaped gardens that have failed because of shifting student priorities. Xerescaped gardens need to turn brown. Colorado also has invasive species. How do we weed out invasive species? Also, we like to use our green spaces (the campus green is filled with kids, for example). Low-water plants around the law school. Getting students to interact with it is a more difficult organizational problem.

Jeff B: We are trying to create a platform for all systems to operate under so there can be access to a network of information for students (a website or something like that).

Questioner: Gave a student assignment to do an energy assessment of their dorms. Had to cancel the assignment because it was hard to access the information.

Mark R: Building design is difficult - thermostat problems in Nelson hall - students leaving windows open

James K: Looking at changing of central plant at CU - total cost of operating facility is sometimes ignored in favor of "first cost." Building codes are also outdated. Our economics causes everything to be averaged. Utilities have to sell more power for their investors, so there is less of an incentive for them to push energy storage, etc.

Jeff B: Mark fighting for good material/architecture, Jeff fighting for good systems.

James K: You have to go deeper than the first economics down to the lifespan of the buildings.

Question: What is the typical time on return on investment for LEED for existing buildings?

Jim B: LEED for new construction is about things being built currently. LEED for existing buildings is about building materials, maintenance, usage, etc. Cost for existing building (200K sq ft) is in the mid-$20Ks for commissioning.

Jeff B: I think that LEED is self-serving in some ways - it's not worth it just to get the sticker. LEED is also focused on architects.

Mark R: Changing Daniels may be the cost of keeping track of the types of paper that go into the paper towel holders, for example. If you can find a way to make the change on the whole campus than just getting the LEED certification at Daniels.

Jim B: When owner told everyone in building that they had to take their trash to a central trash can (but custodial staff would pick up recycling from individual desks) there was an uproar, but it forced people to rethink their trash.

Jeff B: Before LEED was popular, we were thinking the same way without waving a flag. Still, if it doesn't make economic sense to get LEED certification, then don't do it. Some of the LEED points don't even make sense to go into here. 390,000 gallons of water saved per year (less than $1000 of savings) by flushless urinals. Maintenance costs have skyrocketed on urinals because they need more water flow so minerals don't build up.

Jim B: If you become involved in building design, LEED is the most integrative design process but you need to get everyone involved early on and get yourself going towards your goals way beforehand. The architecture effects your building's energy use.